Ready to challenge everything you thought you knew about winning? Imagine a world where winning at all costs isn't the ultimate goal. That's the rabbit hole we're heading down in this episode. We'll explore the dark side of our fixation with success and investigate how a win-at-all-cost mentality can affect relationships, emotional health, and even our sense of self.
From the playground to the boardroom, we're often encouraged to play a game that's not ours, a transactional one where the fear of losing overrides our authenticity. But what if we turned the tables and started playing our own game instead? We delve into how playing your own game, free from societal expectations, can lead to unparalleled success.
We consider the importance of appreciation, reflection, and truly listening to one another. How often do we sacrifice meaningful connections on the altar of competition? It's time to reassess what winning truly means.
Join us as we unearth the dangerous repercussions of a competitive culture and explore how we can redefine what playing and winning should be about.
This thought-provoking, conversational journey promises to challenge your perceptions and maybe even change the way you play the game of life.
Thank you for listening. If you have an idea or message you'd like to share, send us a message: Olivier Egli and Carlos Basurto
Ready to challenge everything you thought you knew about winning? Imagine a world where winning at all costs isn't the ultimate goal. That's the rabbit hole we're heading down in this episode. We'll explore the dark side of our fixation with success and investigate how a win-at-all-cost mentality can affect relationships, emotional health, and even our sense of self.
From the playground to the boardroom, we're often encouraged to play a game that's not ours, a transactional one where the fear of losing overrides our authenticity. But what if we turned the tables and started playing our own game instead? We delve into how playing your own game, free from societal expectations, can lead to unparalleled success.
We consider the importance of appreciation, reflection, and truly listening to one another. How often do we sacrifice meaningful connections on the altar of competition? It's time to reassess what winning truly means.
Join us as we unearth the dangerous repercussions of a competitive culture and explore how we can redefine what playing and winning should be about.
This thought-provoking, conversational journey promises to challenge your perceptions and maybe even change the way you play the game of life.
Thank you for listening. If you have an idea or message you'd like to share, send us a message: Olivier Egli and Carlos Basurto
This is Let It Be Known with Carlos and Olivier. That's right. Number four. Number four Man, we've been on a trip, right, we've been recording. recording. This is number four of millions. right, there's so much to talk about here at the Let It Be Known podcast, where we talk about uncomfortable questions, that whose answer might help Man, human beings, navigate the stormy waters of modern times in relationship, busine ss and whatnot, everything that makes life right.
:Exactly Every day. So we talked about love and self-love, We talked about relationships. We talked about all kinds of things already And today. What is one other aspect of manhood we would like to look at under the lens? I gave you a little preview. Yeah, yeah, I'm not a preview. I made a suggestion, okay, and it was about playing and winning and losing, that's true.
:What about that? Well, you ask a group of men and they're always going to give the same answer We play to win, we play to win, we don't lose.
:And that's it And that sets the tone for everybody. Now We win, we win, which you know my kids, especially my sons in sport And having the mentality of winning, i guess you know some people was like it's great to feel like you have to win, but what I've caught myself doing is that that competitive mentality of winning turns into anger, And that anger on a personal level, but anger and just in general, because something went wrong, something, and now you're just getting upset now. Now you're getting frustrated, now you're screaming Yeah, and it all came from winning.
:From winning or the frustration of not winning, the disappointment of not winning or not winning enough, or not winning again or not winning by a large margin. For me, i recall that all my problems in my life started when I stopped playing because I loved playing and I start playing because I needed to win. You know when, when this unnatural shift happened in a no. For a lot of people listening, this will probably be very weird, because we're so used to play to win so much that we think the idea of the game to even play is to win.
:Like there's no point in playing if you don't win. Correct. But that would imply that there always has to be a winner and always a loser. Correct. That makes for an imbalanced universe. That makes for someone always being second, someone always being left out, even if it's friendly. There's no friendly winning and losing. You know that. The team sports that we have, where we focus all our energies on winning but not on playing, what are we doing? We're throwing away hours and hours of our time. Choose for an outcome without enjoying the ride, but it's the ride that makes playing so fun, yeah.
:I have two dogs.
:I have two French Bulldogs that are crazy and they, they teach me, or they taught me, over the last couple of years, and they're still teaching me every day the magic of real playing. They don't play to win, they play to test their boundaries. They play to know themselves, they play to test their own strength, they play to see what is possible, what's not possible, how far they can go. You know when you, you test your limits, your boundaries. That was always the idea of playing. Young kids play because they it's an adventure. They, it's the kind of research they explore themselves. They explore the shapes and colors around them. They try to fit everything into their perception.
:But at some point it's not about that anymore. It's about our own position and status. Yeah, it's about the trophy, it's about our self worth And, as a man, this is very dangerous, because our self worth should live inside of us, right, right, not in a trophy that's in the cupboard. It should not live in the hands of someone we play against on a playing field or in a document on the wall that proves that you're the winner. Right, you should always be the winner of your own game, but in that game that we play, we always look for dominance because the man is supposed to be dominant, right, i think I mean you know, you're not supposed to be dominant. You're not supposed to be dominant.
:I think I mean little kids, because I'm around them all the time with my son playing soccer that winning and losing I think it starts off with themselves, like you said, like they're playing for themselves. But I think society and everybody around that has changed their mentality of like no, you know you won or you lost type of thing. And what I mean by that is this that there's games where my son's team wins but some of the kids will be upset because they didn't get to score as many goals or they didn't get to play as much. So within themselves they felt like they lost. But we're like let me know, who cares? You won, you won. So I mean we don't pay close attention to what we're saying. We just told them don't worry about kind of like you, you won in general. Now it gets to a point now, as they keep growing up, now the whole thing became as winning or losing, right.
:So yeah, yeah, yeah, i see, i see that, uh, but nevertheless, what does the, what does the parents say to the kid that didn't win?
:Hmm, oh, it's ugly.
:They tell them you're going to win that next time They're not going to win. Luck next time. What then? What if they never win? Are they going to consider themselves losers? Yes, they are, and that is what frustrates little kids as much as grownups, because we think that winning is synonymous with leading a good life, with success, with not failing. And that, to me, is heartbreaking, because it's not natural to us human beings to be in constant competition.
:Right, we, we, we go to school or to the playground, and that's where we get introduced to the idea of there's the best one, you know, there's a winner, like the best grade of the class, and then there's you. And to make matters worse, there are grades and marks that tell you exactly which category, which tier, you're in. It's the same as the scoreboard. Where are you? At the top or at the bottom or somewhere in between. Right, and it's human humans who have attached the importance of being first and at the very top to that list. And now, because we think that this is the aim of life, we think that winning is the pathway to a better life. So now all we want is to win and to fight a better fight, right, win the war, and that it doesn't all these energies and values that we've attached to manhood. That's why so many guys are so aggressive about their lives. They even drive cars like it's a matter of winning or losing. Who has a faster, who has a better start at the red light? Yeah, yeah, who passes, who passes whom on the highway, who's first, who gets there first? And a matter that has no relevance in life, none whatsoever, because you can see the ones that really killed it, the ones that really brought significant value into this world. They didn't win against anyone else because they were alone and unique in what they did, so they didn't win against someone else.
:It's not like Steve Jobs built The better computer, that one, he built fucking max, yeah, and there's no other max.
:So he was not in it to win the race against PCs. He was in this to play his own game. And and that's a point I'm trying to get at, when we pervert the idea of the game And we make it about the big game of life that we have to win, now we're all just players with a number on our back. That's it, right, yeah, and now, of course, we want our parents to be proud of us, our kids to be proud of us. We want to be proud of us, but proud of us because of achievements on the battlefield, on the playing field, not because we showed up as our own self and played our own game right. I Think mental health in in man is so ties, so tied to the notion that They are playing. They're trying to win the big game, which is impossible to win. Be the best of it and everything. It's literally impossible, yeah, versus Being the only one playing at their game, their own game.
:Yeah.
:Right, wow, what when? when you find your own game. You're very own game, you unique human being, so you have your own game inside of you, the game of you. When you find that you make the rules you know it's fine.
:I don't think a lot of people understand that they're playing the game of them, like the masking. This question you've mentioned before and the other shows that you've worked with a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of business owners, and Have you seen them or help them in the situation where they They go in into an industry or whatever they're doing, but then they start Making it a competition with, like, as far as I didn't make that much or I'm making, i need to make you know I'm saying every day, and then how does that, like that I mean I'm sure you've seen it Like how does that change their mental health?
:Like get frustrated.
:They're just, oh, i mean, you know you know, you know You know body Chose as well and as much as I do, it being an insurance. You can be a beautiful human being that is grounded. They has a unique perspective on life, that has values, that is a provider for the family, but in the sense of nurturing the family you have, you can have beautiful relationships and love yourself. And then You go into an industry and that industry, if you're open to it, tells you you're not part of the industry game And these are the rules. You have to offer the cheapest price and advertise the best service and appear mainly on your billboards and you're gonna kill it. And guess what? the, the mind that's susceptible to winning the game, is gonna follow with all that. It's gonna follow up. It's gonna be like yep, done, done, done. Okay, let's kill it, let's offer it for cheaper. It's higher, cheaper labor, it's fun labor outside the country that we can hire for. You know, like phone services and you know, although those kind of things Buy billboard space, do all the shit that the game requires. Because I want to be number one, i want to be able to put that little seal of voted number one in 2017. Who cares? right, because that's what the game demands. I See every day people look me in the eyes and tell me They don't know when it happened, but at some point it's like they sold their soul to the devil. And I can tell them exactly when it happened. It happened when they Stopped playing their own game and started playing the big game of winning. And now they go to you know, they go to insurance conventions, yeah, and now they're full of tension because, like, what are the other ones doing? How can I do it better than them? Mm-hmm, what can I ask them so that I can take that and flip it and make it even better, so that I can push them out? What can I do to Take over the entire market, push away the competition, feel better about myself, advertise myself as the winner number one, best, cheapest, always on. And, yeah, you know, i, i understand that when you're, when you're afraid, when you're afraid of not making it, you're afraid of missing out, you're afraid of, you know, not being able to grow in certain ways, you're not able to provide better, or, you know, just become the kind of person you, you want to be because it's been advertised to you, yeah, then you want to win. You want to know that every day, when you come home, you won the game. The problem is just that that's not possible. No, but nobody wins that game. Nobody does. Even you lose the game, man. Look at it.
:So many people were once at the height of their career, as they say, right, right. They were like all over the news, hailed as the new Rising stars, and then gone, gone. What happens to a mentality, to the mental health of a person, and I experienced that again. You know, you might do my advertising career. I Experienced that. I experienced that I wasn't a high and I I felt like Dude, i'm winning every game right now. But now the fear sets in. What if, suddenly I stopped winning? What if someone else comes and claims my throne? and sure enough, it happened. It happened over night. Overnight I lost the edge, i was Pushed out because at some point someone comes who's hungrier than you.
:Yeah, the year, sir, than you, a willing to know of bend over backwards and, you know, suck it up more than you. And Now, with that mentality of winning, you're out. But not only that, you're broken Because winning is all you had Versus the people who play their own game. They're untouchable. You're untouchable in your own game because nobody else can play that game. Okay, you know what I mean? Yeah, no, is there a second illa musk? Oh, is there a second one? There's not. No, never will be, just like that will never be a second Carlos.
:So if you are as as clear-cut and visionary and courageous as You know, those people that would deem idols in playing your game, people will recognize that and they will recognize. They can only Find what you do Within you. Right, that is your game. Anyone who tries to copy you as it is an imposter, yeah, right. But we, if we all think we're all just playing baseball Or life is just a giant soccer match and it's about us as individuals winning and then also being in the winning team, can you imagine the kind of racket, the kind of, the kind of menacing Noise the world becomes filled with? well, that's the markets. That is the markets. The markets are saturated because Everybody in there is elbowing the way to the winning, to the winning rank right.
:Now losing? I've, maybe I've asked myself this question and in my time in quietness, i'll let it be known now Is that, is it okay to lose?
:Why? you ask me Well, well yourself.
:Yeah well, i asked myself. But then again, that whole persona of being a man is That. I'm not gonna call myself a loser.
:You know, you know.
:No, no, and I'm seeing it, i'm, I know you're saying and I'm seeing it, but it's just, it's that whole mentality of that mental like the man, the warrior, this and that gets back in and things like that, you know. So I mean, when someone knew you start working with them and so forth, and they say I'm a loser, like I mean, what does that first thing come to you, to them, like you can only be a loser if you believe in winning you know, You can only be a loser if you will live for winning.
:Okay, if you play to play everything that you said before, there's no losing. There's only today. I'm not gonna play Today, i'm not gonna play. That's the only, that's the biggest form of losing there is in in the life of someone who's not playing to win But it's playing to play. There's, there's a great. There's a great. I Think it's a TED talk, i'm not quite sure but there's a great speech by, by, by, by a famous author. Sure enough, i'm so bad with names.
:I can recall his name, i, i, i will remember Simon Sinek, of course, right, he it's. It's not from him, but he kind of coined it in a way where I find it very helpful. It's game theory, game theory. There's some something called game theory. Okay, and in game theory now these two approaches, basically what we've been talking for the past 20 minutes you can design a game for winning and losing, right, right, a game that's designed to be one.
:The problem with that game is it's finite, it's over when there's a winner, right, right. And that is the problem of winning. What happens after you won Is the game over and you die. You need another game, right, so you need to constantly win. That was my point before when I said these people that are writing, you know these all time highs. It's not enough to be the best paid, so-and-so, to be the most famous, so-and-so, you have to stay there. And that is impossible because it takes superhuman powers. Right, you can't, you cannot stay number one, no one can, no one.
:But the second approach in game theory and that is the interesting one, that's, the one that's taken from nature is the infinite game, the game that never ends, where people play to stay in the game. So there's no expectation in winning, there's intention in playing. You get the difference. Yeah, no, no, it's not. I am in the car to get to a destination. I'm in the car to drive and keep driving. I live not to reach a point of happiness or success. I live and work not to make a bazillion dollars. I live and work and exist to experience life. I play to play, a work to work. You understand? Yeah, the thing is that when you adopt the idea of the infinite game, you can relax, because now all you have to do is focus the energy on staying in it, not winning, because winning is an aggressive energy. Yeah, as a man, if you imagine this, you meet your friends for a night out, right?
:Right.
:You can go at it with two different attitudes. The first one is you have an expectation. You want to be the cool guy. You want your friends to see you as the successful entrepreneur You're killing it. You want to share your successes. You want them to be like oh man, so good for you, i'm so happy. You know you want those taps on the back.
:Of course, the problem now is that what if it doesn't happen? What if you leave after the night is over and you feel like man that sucked, i didn't get any gratification, didn't get to share my stories. He's more successful than me, he makes twice as much as me. He's got a better looking girlfriend. You failed, failed, failed, failed. You're fucked. You go home. You cry yourself to sleep.
:That's the finite game. Now, the infinite game is very simple. You go out the game with your friends, right. But instead of going with an expectation of what the night should turn out to be, you just go with an intention. You're like I don't fucking care what's going to happen, i'm just going to be me. I'm just going to say whatever I want. I'm going to drink whatever I want. I'm not going to let anyone tell me what I should think and say I'm just going to be, let's just see what the night brings, let's just see. Okay, let's be open. Yeah, guess what happens, everything becomes possible. Everything becomes possible. Right Yeah, everything is possible now And you're open to all kinds of conversations, food, drinks, encounters, acquaintances, everything. And there's no chance for you to go back home being disappointed because you were true to your words. You were true, right Yeah, you said. you said I'm going to be open. You said you were going to be open to whatever happens. And so you're aware, right Yeah, you see the difference? No big difference.
:And if we could apply that to our lives as man you know, speak so much peaceful we could remove all that forceful energy that we think is associated with being a man, we could just be vulnerable. We would not need to have these safe spaces anymore. You know, yeah, like, oh, that's great, a safe space where we can be vulnerable. No, everything becomes a safe space because you have nothing to lose and nothing to risk. You're just being yourself. You're not here in the capacity of a player that wants to win. You're here in the capacity of you, but it's all there is In the end. That's really all there is right, but that applies to anything, anything. You think you think someone who looks at the world like that can lose? You think it's possible? No, no, no way. What will be the next step? You think it's possible?
:No, no, no way. What will be lost for such a person? You know, you know, going back to like like a person that loses, there's people I mean it's like you said, can a person lose? And I just said no, but there's people that crying when we go losing, i lost, crying and mad, i lost. But then I now mean it seems like you really lost. You let that control, like that type of emotions and what you feel, then you lost. Oh yeah, you lost. But if you didn't right, but for someone who's just playing and doesn't care, i mean, like you just said, does that person lose?
:No, No, no, there's, no, there's, no, there's no notion of loss. Yeah, i think it ties into our last episode. I mean it all ties together, right, right, if you love yourself unconditionally, right.
:Yeah.
:There's no way you could call yourself a loser. It makes no sense. It's not possible for the person that loves themselves enough unconditionally to call themselves a loser. It's opposite to loving yourself. To call yourself a loser Yeah, because that that is judging you. I judge myself as a loser. Therefore, i feel like a loser, which is the reflection of a lack of self love. Right, you're actually not loving yourself.
:Whenever people say that I'm a loser, you can lose, you can lose, which means, okay, you lost money, you engaged in a transactional game, yeah, and now someone won, someone lost, okay, sometimes we have to do these things, right? Right, the world is transactional. Games are transactional for the largest part. If I go to Vegas and I play and I lose in the transaction, i lost, but I'm not a loser. I just lost that game. In the big game. I'm still playing me. I'm not a loser, i'm a winner at my game. I wouldn't even call it a winner. Me personally, i would call it a player. I'm playing my life. I like that term better. Right, and you know I work with people who are nearing depression, which is really not a. It's not an easy topic.
:It's not an easy topic, because they're like.
:You know there's like, for some people there's a real chemical imbalance. Of other people it's just a mental imbalance And they can even judge themselves lucky, because when you have a mental imbalance, very often it really just refers to you view on the world and the self-worth and self-value that you know you get from that. So if you, if you look at the world as as imperfect, as lacking, you always want to win it from the perspective of someone who needs to win the game, Because if you don't, this world's going to eat you, It's going to bite your head off, Right, Yeah, Well, yeah, You learn it as a little kid. You're a stronger guy, will take your toy, You will get kicked out of school or you will not get the job. It will all these things that we think matter and up eating us up. But I want for I really want for people to understand you don't have to play that game. I think it's really important that we know that we have a choice.
:You have a choice, but not many people see like they have a choice. Well, of course not.
:If you go into, I am asking you is every insurance agent exactly the same? No, But they think they are.
:Yeah Right, we also. Oh yeah, you're right, oh shit, you're right. It's like any other agent.
:And so they all do the same thing.
:Yeah.
:But they try to like do it maybe a little cheaper or maybe a little more, like in blue or in yellow or in green? Right, these things that don't matter, that we do to differentiate ourselves because we think those are the rules of the game. My hands are tight, there's not much I can do. Right, the industry is the industry.
:Yeah, but every once in a while, you will agree, there's someone who comes and flips the whole shit on its head, oh yeah. And then we wonder oh, why didn't I think of that? Well, because you didn't allow for yourself to do that, because you were tied in the game. And they came and said why does a square have to look like a square? My square is round, because that's what I believe and I'm just going to do that. Yeah, that's why you know you may hate the cyber truck, why people hate it? because it doesn't look like an F one.
:Fifty, or Chevy. Yeah, you're absolutely right about that, people. that's the first.
:It doesn't look like a real truck, but that is the game, the game of the trucks of the world, have defined that a truck has to have a long hood and a long bed. Yeah, but Elon Musk, if you ask him, he says like I don't know much about trucks, but that know what a truck would look like in my world, in my game, and here it is. And everybody goes like what you can do that? And he's like why not?
:You're so right about that, damn.
:So we can always choose. Of course we can't. We don't have the power and fortune of Elon Musk, so we can't just do it from one day to the other and say like, ok, i'm going to build my house completely differently, i'm going to play my game completely different. But we can inch our way out of the common game of winning towards the personal game of playing. I think the most beautiful, isn't it? so that you look at your kid. What is the most magical thing about a little kid?
:He doesn't care. Yeah, but other people think.
:Yeah, but when you observe them, you know yeah, i know, i know exactly what you mean, but that comes in. There are certain qualities that make that lack of care really shine. The curious Yeah, they're playful.
:Yeah.
:And they're open Right, absolutely. When you're an insurance agent, when you're a man, in today's manly culture, you're neither playful nor open nor curious. We all do the same thing because we all want to play to win Right Yeah. I look at game theory on the field in baseball and basketball and I see it's so rigid People can't even be creative anymore. You have to follow the rules to the T. So now it's about are you fast, are you strong, are you tall? Right Yeah, these are the things that define a man in his worth and his path to success. It's wrong, it should be creativity, originality, courage, playfulness, openness, curiosity. These are much more important in the real game than just a strong arm to throw and fast legs to run, because in the real game, in your own game, you define the rules. You define the rules, that's that's powerful man.
:You're right, i was just smiling.
:I am smiling so much because it's like very eerie.
:Oh man. But again we go back to the same thing. We said it's like originality. You know it's your game, and what? why do we make it? And I say we because of man in general. Why do we make it not so easy?
:Well, last time we talked about it right, the shift is hard, but playing the game is easy. But to shift from that transactional game of winning, Yeah. To the transformative game of playing. It's, it's, it's hard. It's hard because we never learned it. You keep saying it every time. Remember. You always say nobody ever taught me to.
:Yeah.
:Nobody ever taught me to. That is the subtext of all our problems. Nobody ever guided us to realize Oh, we actually hear. We human beings are here to have fun. We're actually here to play. Play to win is no fun. It's no fun. It's no fun When every day turns into a battle. I'm sorry, it's no fun. You bring home bruises, you bring home disappointment and frustration, and then it borders on, or oftentimes it escalates into, domestic violence. The kids get their brunt.
:You know, it's just not good You know, you know, and I go and I'm thinking of a couple of friends of mine And the Queen's people that have come across And like one of them he deals with you know his weight Right And he's always said, oh, nothing works. You know, it's so hard for me. You know, in the last couple of days You know all these recordings we've been doing I actually start thinking like wait, like more deep into it, like it's more than that, and I really now started thinking He's not playing his game And the result Is his angry, his obesity, his health. That's the results He's getting for not playing his own game. He's he's playing the game He thinks he needs to win and whatever buddy else is doing so for, and the result Is do your, you have, do like i'm. I'm getting to the point where it's like you need to look out for your health, man. I mean you got kids.
:I agree, but but So it's not so much.
:All this diet plan doesn't worry this and that. No, dude, you got to look deeper into that. It's more than that.
:Yeah, yeah. And as a man, he is also Driven by this image. What a man should look like, right?
:so, oh, that's that's, that's gotta be one of the Oh, it's gonna be, it's definitely gonna be, oh man.
:But you know, you, and then you start shaming yourself. Yeah, you shame yourself because you are not Following the rules of the game. The rules of the game says a man needs to look like Spartans. You know, in the movie 300. Yeah, we all need to look like we're carved out of stone, right, because that's what it takes to be a warrior that can win the game.
:Yeah but when you move away from it, you start creating space for yourself, you start forgiving yourself and, you know, also creating an understanding for yourself to say, like, okay, i might not look Like an adonis right now, but I am willing to engage on a path of transformation. But for that I need to play my own game. And it's a good point that you bring up, because the world, the world with the world I mean the world out there, right, the world of the amazons, and you know the food chains, mcdonald's and all that the world does not want you To step into your own game. They're not interested in that. Amazon doesn't like it When people play their own game, because that means that they stop Making up their sorry lives, their shame and whatnot with purchases.
:Right, you feel bad about yourself. You're gonna reward yourself or make yourself feel better with, you know, a sandwich from chick filet. That's what you do. Yeah, you feel like it was a hard week. Let's have some in and out. Right, you reward yourself, even though Afterwards you hate yourself. It's this, it's this weird reward cycle, this punishment and reward cycle. We're in because this game It's got us, it's it won't let us go.
:But once you step into your own game. You realize what's going on. You're like, nah, i make my own rules. My own rules mean What I eat I become, what I do, must come from me. What I choose to buy needs to serve me. Okay, that that is. That is what someone who plays their own game Realizes. It's that every decision I make It's not here to make me feel better about something that I hate about myself. It's not here to make me feel like, oh, i didn't lose so much. I actually lost only a little bit, or, yeah, one I'm. You know, i deserve a little something extra. But it says, like, i'm still playing my game. Good for me, awesome. What do I need to do to continue playing and obviously eating bad shit? Spending your money on bull, on crap, yeah right. Inviting toxic people into your life, spending your time watching stupid shows and Doing things that you're you cannot afford or that are not good for you. You will not do these things when your game is about staying in the game. You will do everything to stay in the game, but when you want to win, that's the problem.
:At some point you win, the game is over. And now what? Now you need comfort food. Now. You need a comfort purchase Now. You need comfort vacation Now. You need comfort, workout, obsession spree, whatever you know. You just go and do all these things because the game of winning and losing Is it looks like you know, it looks like this Okay, i wish a podcast was visual.
:You know, it goes up and then drops down to zero. And then it goes up and drops down to zero. It's like Hot shower, cold shower, hot shower, cold shower, cold shower, cold shower, hot shower, hot shower, cold shower, horrible. But someone who plays the on game, it's nice lukewarm water all the time, all the time. Because since you get, you play your own game.
:It's known and I'll tell you how to play.
:You are the referee, you're your own opponent, you're everything in the game, right, so You realize that you're like okay, i make my own bed, but in the, in the game of winning, men always have to kick others out of the bed And then sleep in a bed that's not theirs And that's not comfortable. So we go for the next bed and the next bed and next bed. You know, i know it's a weird analogy, it's just like in the moment, but it's just not healthy and I am convinced. I even have scientific data to back it that man and mental health issues stem mostly from this twisted notion we have that life Is a game that needs to be won. It's false. It never has been and never will be. Unless There's a real war for resources, unless there is a real situation of urgency And you have to fight for your life, there's no reason to believe that you have to win. Unless a bear is attacking you or someone's threatening you with a knife or a gun Right, there is no need to win, there's no need to play your game.
:Can you? imagine We could all let go of the idea. I don't think anybody has ever really have told another person What happens after you win. It's done.
:What happens when the movie is over? Yeah, tell me when you watch a movie, What? what is a movie you you watch? You know it's funny.
:I was having this conversation with my daughter, literally, and once the movie was over.
:Now what.
:You know what she said? she said it sucks, it's over, huh, done. And I'm like. I'm like I didn't really pay attention to it, like until now, but you're right, like once it's over, it's like.
:But it's a fair question because life is never over, right? so you know that I mean, when the movies over, we would demand to know, and then what? and then then he goes, and he goes to Walmart.
:Right now exactly, you're like wait, wait, wait, wait. No, there's gotta be more this yeah.
:But that's exactly. You know, movies all about the good guy winning of the bad course, and that's why it doesn't work.
:Even when the good guy wins, you still end up saying wait, there's gotta be more. Hold on, wait. Hey, what happens now? like what about?
:him because you expect. In being in that mindset, you expect What's the next battle, what is it now? Yeah, what's what's gonna be the next problem? We don't want. When you have a mindset of winning, you cannot live in peace. Peace is not possible. You don't, you cannot work in balance When you're here and exist just to win. Yeah, pieces in the impossibility We need. You know the American culture.
:It has proven time and time again I mean, i'm talking about the political side of it that it's not interested in in peace, because peace means that we spend less on Right armament and defense and it also means that suddenly there's no more grounds for decisions That involve a lot of money. Right, right, money always flows in the direction where we need to win something. Mm-hmm, right, so now we have to win an election. We feed a lot of money into a candidate, into a campaign. But if there was no such thing, right, if we said, like we build systems, they are intended to be stable and balanced so they can just continue And they're not about winning over the other party, if we did that, because we ourselves have a mindset that goes for Playing in order to play, not to win, far less money will be spent in politics, yeah, and the money would actually go where it's needed to satisfy health, mental health, education, transportation, infrastructure, all these things.
:I thought we promised ourselves to leave the political Conversation. Sometimes everything is tied in, but it's it's just. It's insane how one leads to the other. Yeah, the way you see winning and losing is the way you lead your life, is the way you're in business, it's the way you lead your relationship, it's the way you deal with your friends. The example with the friends and the night out I see this all the time the tough guy that has to prove to the rest of his friends That he's tough.
:Mm-hmm and now gets engaged in a in a in a brawl? Yeah, and if he loses his shamed. How stupid is that? the people that we allow for people to be motivated To risk their health and their lives, their integrity and everything they have just because they want to Satisfy an image that's not real.
:Yeah, yeah, play, play your games, guys, play to play. Yeah, play to play to play.
:You'd be surprised if you sit down with a piece of paper and a pen and just write down Every situation today, this very day you encountered where you felt That you either won or lost, or that a situation was about winning or losing and that impacted your judgment. You know, driving a lane change Food you, food you ordered. Or Talking, picking up the phone not picking, calling someone, making a business decision, inviting someone in or not, the way you behave Towards a colleague, a friend, family member How much of our life is motivated By the way we see Playfulness in our lives, especially as man, when it comes to this martial, powerful, violent expression of playing Man crazy. So much to be said, yeah, but you see, it's a little bit like with this, this podcast here Mm-hmm. We're not in this. We're not in this to take anyone to a certain destination. There's no destination to life. This is really just about Expressing something that we really care about. That's it. This is not about winning a conversation or making a point.
:I don't see there's an like, an end to this like. Like we got to this point, we won.
:It's impossible. that would be impossible because then we have to ask, like your daughter, that sucks. Yeah, one now, right? Yeah, man well, that was great. Thank you again, carlos.
:Yeah, no, thank you and everyone out there. You know, just, man, take it in and, like you said, grab piece of paper and start writing that stuff down today, you know. But yeah, reach out to us, let us know.
:Thank you so much for listening You.